Potential MLS Lock-Out

Discussion in 'Prem talk, Those Other Leagues, and International' started by andypalmer, Jan 7, 2010.

  1. andypalmer

    andypalmer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    I didn't see a topic on here for it, though I'm not really posting about the main topic of the CBA negotiations. :)

    My question is this:

    If the MLS locks out its players and isn't having games, does that mean Everton gets to extend Donovan's loan?
     
    #1
  2. pettyfog

    pettyfog Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    I would think so.
     
    #2
  3. WhitesBhoy

    WhitesBhoy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Location:
    The Beach, For Now
    RE: Re: Potential MLS Lock-Out

    Oh goody! This should get much more entertaining before I lose interest again.

    Having a certain amount of success now is showing that it also brings a certain amount of vulnerability. The MSL could very soon reach crisis level,....and who to blame?
     
    #3
  4. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    how incredibly stupid for American soccer to have a lock out of our domestic league just before a world cup. We have to be the joke of professional sports

    well, right after the NHL that is.
     
    #4
  5. Spencer

    Spencer New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Location:
    St. Paul, MN
    I haven't been paying attention. How likely is this actually? Has the league gone as far as to threaten it or are we just speculating that they might? Wonder what FIFA would have to say about. Can't imagine there's much precedent.

    Nice to see you actively rooting against American soccer PCB. And although it would be a total disaster in this case the lockout, for what its worth, did save the NHL. I know the entire American sports media, public, and Don would rather continue to blindly belittle it but hey.
     
    #5
  6. andypalmer

    andypalmer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    It's pretty likely. The players can't continue under the status quo (rightly so, IMO) and the owners don't appear to be willing to budge.
     
    #6
  7. Spencer

    Spencer New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Location:
    St. Paul, MN
    Wouldn't that make a strike rather than a lock out likely though?
     
    #7
  8. timmyg

    timmyg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2006
    And it's probably beneficial for the players if you think about it. If they lockout, fine -- they'll just go play somewhere else, and get paid more.

    Whereas in other (American) sports the players usually cave because they have no where else (they're willing) to go.
     
    #8
  9. BarryP

    BarryP New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2007
    Location:
    Evansville, Indiana
    What percentage do you think will really be able to "just go play somewhere else"?
     
    #9
  10. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    all the good ones with any marketability will, and we'll be left with an MLS with a quality level right up there close to USL-2.

    And Spencer, I was a bit older than you when the NHL owners locked out the players. I can remember how suddenly there was a ton of parking available in St. Paul during the winter. I can remember when, after they broke the union for all intents and purposes, the owners decided that what was really wrong with the game was all those 1-0 and 2-1 games, widened the goals and wound up with a shitload of 13-8s.

    Hockey is still alive and well in MN, thanks to UM, UM-Duluth, and their rivals in North Dakota. The NHL? Well ... .
     
    #10
  11. Spencer

    Spencer New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Location:
    St. Paul, MN
    Alright Don. Lets break this down;

    The Minnesota Wild have sold out every game they've ever played. That's seven years in with a so-so team. Local TV ratings have not been in decline, just the opposite in fact. I was at a UM game last week and can verify that it was not sold out. Yes college hockey is important in Minnesota, it isn't above the NHL however.

    They didn't widen the goals! And how many 21 goal games can you point to Don? They put stricter limits on goalie pads, eliminated the the red line (in line with both college and international rules), cracked down on clutch and grab play, introduced the trapezoid to cut down on goalies handling the puck, put in a few other measures to generally speed up the pace of play, and changed overtime format to include shootout. So what has the actual effect been on scoring?

    yr gpg
    2008-09 5.83
    2007-08 5.57
    2006-07 5.89
    2005-06 6.17 -first season with new rules
    2003-04 5.14 -last year before lock out
    2002-03 5.31
    2001-02 5.24
    for comparison
    1988-89 7.48 -Gretzky's first season in LA
    -goal per game averages were plus 7 for the entire 80's decade

    Average attendance in the last year before the lockout was 16,534. Last season it was 17,475. With rinks that virtually all have an 18,000 cap, this number means if you simply drop Florida, Tampa, Atlanta, and Phoenix you can see than the other 26 teams are pitching near sellouts every game. Average team revenue is up 24% since the lockout. In the US TV ratings have been a mixed bag. The 2007 Stanley Cup was the lowest rated ever, however 2008 was the highest. In Canada the game remains incredibly strong. The World Junior Championship on Tuesday drew 5.3 million viewers. That's 1 in 6 or the equivalent of a viewership 50 million in the US. The game has been on the up and up, if the American sports media gave it some respect it would be even more so. These are the same folks who misrepresent soccer all the time so don't regurgitate them on this Don!
     
    #11
  12. WhitesBhoy

    WhitesBhoy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Location:
    The Beach, For Now
    One word of advice before you continue down that path, Spencer: Ritalin.
     
    #12
  13. andypalmer

    andypalmer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Unless USSF steps in, they CAN'T play somewhere else, as MLS holds their FIFA registration.

    In reading the court case in which the courts rules in favor of MLS so many years ago, I think the MLS would lose such a case today. The whole reason they won was that the players couldn't prove the bounds of the market for MLS in which MLS has the monopoly. It's been much more clearly established now and with the uncertainty around div II soccer in the US/Canada (the market), the case for MLS being a monopoly for top professional soccer in both the US and Canada is a much easier sell.
     
    #13
  14. WhitesBhoy

    WhitesBhoy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Location:
    The Beach, For Now
    The sons of Bosman.

    I don't think any organization, including FIFA, wants to go down the freedom of movement of players road again. But as litigious a society that we are, wouldn't surprise me if we did. And you want to see some confused sports reporters in the United States?? That would almost make it worth it!

    The ball is round. (Not pointy and played in only one,..okay two countries.)
     
    #14
  15. HatterDon

    HatterDon Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2006
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of South Texas
    1. You must remember that the only sport in the USA with anti-trust exemption is baseball and, if a huge conflict arose because of it, Congress would probably rescind that. I'm pretty sure that a court challenge against the legality of a league holding ultimate contract power and then depriving their players from earning a living at their trade anywhere in the world would be successful.

    2. FIFA have already stated that they will take no action concerning the MLS lockout, but they would probably have something to say about the MLS stopping American players from earning a living if it came to that.

    3. The important lesson that the MLS needs to learn is that in other sports labor disputes, The Great American Fandom [whipped up by the "independent" press] always falls on the side of the owners [while always saying "I blame both sides."] and brings emotional pressure against the players. In soccer, however, there are no mega national audiences watching hours of commercials who will demand their eye candy and cause a national whirlwind against the players. Instead, they'll watch footie from some other country on FSC. In other words, if the league and its owners don't bend a little, they're going to lose their league.

    4. Spencer, I bow to the weight of your NHL argument. You have too many facts [all done without links to ranting bloggers, by the way] in support of your position. I withdraw from the field promising never to slight the NHL, especially their post-lockout iteration. You were right, and I was wrong.*

    *See how easy it is to teach people something and cause them to change the way they look at things? What Spencer did was to seize on several of my statements and, using logic and data, gently refute each of them. He then appealed to my better angels NOT to repeat in this argument what I hate to see done in other arguments. This is one of the skills that can be refined in college, by the way.
     
    #15
  16. stlouisbrad

    stlouisbrad Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2007
    Thank you Spencer for defending my second favorite sport. I've been a season ticket holder for the St. Louis Blues for 5 seasons now. COYW and Let's go Blues!
     
    #16
  17. andypalmer

    andypalmer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    This is not to get anything beyond Bosman. This is just to get to the same Bosman level of treatment as players in other leagues.

    Currently, MLS owns your rights, negotiates the contract, and determines where you play. Additionally, most contracts are not only not guaranteed (dropped at any time, no compensation), but have 1 year options that MLS can turn on. And, while your contract is not guaranteed, you can't sign for another MLS team for 2 years after they cancel your contract until THEY decide to release you.
     
    #17
  18. WhitesBhoy

    WhitesBhoy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Location:
    The Beach, For Now
    Yep, it's the anti-Bosman on steroids with the single-entity structure.

    It served a purpose, but now it MUST be broken!

    The chickens are coming home too roost, and reading about this on Big Soccer, I seriously have to wonder who pays for that site and some of its "writers".
     
    #18
  19. Spencer

    Spencer New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2005
    Location:
    St. Paul, MN
    I'm still unclear on why exactly there would be a lockout.

    The MLSPA is making demands, the league is as of now refusing to comply with those demands. However, presumably the league is completely willing to continue operating under the terms of the old CBA as it has done for the past five years or whatever. The impetus should then be on the union to call a strike (something I highly doubt they have the unity to do). Otherwise, it seems to me, operations will proceed without a new CBA in place and whatever agreement is eventually struck would apply retroactively. Unless the league is demanding concessions from the current CBA (as was the case with the NHL), rather than just fighting union gains in the next one, why would they impose a lockout?

    As far as Donovan is concerned, if the Galaxy/MLS were acting in the spirit of a true lockout they would do every thing they could to prevent their players from practicing their trade ANYWHERE as to maximize they're leverage.

    But as I said I can't see the union ballsing up enough to strike or a motivation for the the league to impose a lockout, especially before a world cup. They'll come to an agreement even if it is a year from now, in the mean time they'll work without a new contract under the terms of the expired one.

    Am I missing something?
     
    #19
  20. WhitesBhoy

    WhitesBhoy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2008
    Location:
    The Beach, For Now
    How many MLS players start for their World Cup team??

    Someone mentioned the "lock-out" statement as a sort of pre-emptory salvo, before the infamous "strike" word is officially put into rotation. As Don said, this may be the PR saber-rattling as the league tries to paint the players as selfish, contract-breaking primadonnas. And this may be one of those instances where the lack of domestic understanding and attraction to the game works in the leagues favor. After all, the current players are getting paid now as professionals to do what they might otherwise be doing in a pub league...
     
    #20

Share This Page